St. Louis Cardinals 2019

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ER3
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Re: St. Louis Cardinals 2019

Post by ER3 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:58 am

jim beam wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:46 pm
tribecalledquest wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:26 pm
ER3 wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:11 am
When Tommy Edman and Kolten Wong are your 2nd and 3rd biggest offensive threats in your lineup...it's a big problem. Nothing against them...it just shines a light on how truly awful the rest of the lineup is.

And it would be a truly Cardinal move to simply sign Ozuna to an ill-advised long-term contract in the offseason and say that they believe Ozuna, Goldschmidt, and DeJong will be better next year...and that they are expecting huge bounce-back seasons from Bader and Carpenter next year...and 'poof'...the offense is magically 'fixed'.
Im all in favor of signing Ozuna. He's a good offensive player who has it into a ton of bad luck this season. He hits the ball really hard and has a decent K-rate. The other options out there aren't good. He's not perfect, but he's the best FA answer on the market.
After this series, hes going to want a ton. I doubt they pay him. They will try to convert Edman into a full time corner OF and be sold on Carp back at 3b
What he wants and what he will be offered as a free agent are likely going to be two very different things...

The market over the past couple of years has shifted wildly on guys like Ozuna...gone are the days where guys like him (guys turning 30 that are middling defenders) could find 5 year deals out there for $20M+ per year...

I think he either takes the 1 year qualifying offer the Cards will put on him (at ~$18M), or he signs a deal with the Cards at something like 3 years/$42-45M...If the Cards go longer than that or at more $$$ per year, they are foolishly bidding against themselves...

Once the Cards put the qualifying offer on him, that is going to eliminate a lot of the interest in him on the free agent market (see Kimbrel, Keuchel)...so hopefully that gives the Cards an opportunity to get him signed at a decent value...

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals 2019

Post by OrangeandBlack74 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:42 pm

I could see the Cardinals with a brand new starting outfield next season...that includes Edman, who was not a starter at the beginning of this season.
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Re: St. Louis Cardinals 2019

Post by tribecalledquest » Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:48 pm

OrangeandBlack74 wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:42 pm
I could see the Cardinals with a brand new starting outfield next season...that includes Edman, who was not a starter at the beginning of this season.
If Edman is starting in the OF that means they have failed on multiple levels.
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Re: St. Louis Cardinals 2019

Post by ER3 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:57 pm

tribecalledquest wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:48 pm
OrangeandBlack74 wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:42 pm
I could see the Cardinals with a brand new starting outfield next season...that includes Edman, who was not a starter at the beginning of this season.
If Edman is starting in the OF that means they have failed on multiple levels.
I would agree...I just don't see the Cardinals taking the necessary actions to sign/trade for 3 starting OFs that would be better options than Edman (as sad as that is to type...) before next season.

Dexter Fowler is brutal defensively...and while he's a decent OBP guy, the rest of his offensive profile doesn't really make him an attractive starter at this point. If Edman gives you 75% of what he has offensively this year, he's a superior option to Fowler in RF.

Harrison Bader is a quality defender...but he profiles as a 4th OF (at best) with his offensive ineptitude factored in...

So, if the Cards do sign Ozuna to start in LF...where are the other 2 OF starters coming from? I guess that's the question...One camp will push forward the Tyler O'Neill, Lane Thomas, Randy Arozarena names...I don't see any of those guys being the solution...Dylan Carlson looks like he's gonna take one of these spots eventually...just not sure that next year he'll be ready from day 1...

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals 2019

Post by tribecalledquest » Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:00 pm

ER3 wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:57 pm
tribecalledquest wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:48 pm
OrangeandBlack74 wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:42 pm
I could see the Cardinals with a brand new starting outfield next season...that includes Edman, who was not a starter at the beginning of this season.
If Edman is starting in the OF that means they have failed on multiple levels.
I would agree...I just don't see the Cardinals taking the necessary actions to sign/trade for 3 starting OFs that would be better options than Edman (as sad as that is to type...) before next season.

Dexter Fowler is brutal defensively...and while he's a decent OBP guy, the rest of his offensive profile doesn't really make him an attractive starter at this point. If Edman gives you 75% of what he has offensively this year, he's a superior option to Fowler in RF.

Harrison Bader is a quality defender...but he profiles as a 4th OF (at best) with his offensive ineptitude factored in...

So, if the Cards do sign Ozuna to start in LF...where are the other 2 OF starters coming from? I guess that's the question...One camp will push forward the Tyler O'Neill, Lane Thomas, Randy Arozarena names...I don't see any of those guys being the solution...Dylan Carlson looks like he's gonna take one of these spots eventually...just not sure that next year he'll be ready from day 1...
The Cardinals went from having like 12 OF options 18 months ago to having like one now.
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Re: St. Louis Cardinals 2019

Post by ER3 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:59 pm

tribecalledquest wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:00 pm
ER3 wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:57 pm
tribecalledquest wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:48 pm


If Edman is starting in the OF that means they have failed on multiple levels.
I would agree...I just don't see the Cardinals taking the necessary actions to sign/trade for 3 starting OFs that would be better options than Edman (as sad as that is to type...) before next season.

Dexter Fowler is brutal defensively...and while he's a decent OBP guy, the rest of his offensive profile doesn't really make him an attractive starter at this point. If Edman gives you 75% of what he has offensively this year, he's a superior option to Fowler in RF.

Harrison Bader is a quality defender...but he profiles as a 4th OF (at best) with his offensive ineptitude factored in...

So, if the Cards do sign Ozuna to start in LF...where are the other 2 OF starters coming from? I guess that's the question...One camp will push forward the Tyler O'Neill, Lane Thomas, Randy Arozarena names...I don't see any of those guys being the solution...Dylan Carlson looks like he's gonna take one of these spots eventually...just not sure that next year he'll be ready from day 1...
The Cardinals went from having like 12 OF options 18 months ago to having like one now.
Yeah...that's the unfortunate truth...

STL had such a backlog of outfield depth...allegedly...So...they had to move Pham to clear a path to playing time for Bader...They had to move Oscar Mercado...because...well...I don't know...I guess they just didn't see any opportunity for Mercado on the horizon with that list of can't miss OF options ahead of him.

Now we're sitting here a year and a half later staring at a huge talent deficit in the OF. Weird how that works...

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals 2019

Post by tribecalledquest » Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:03 pm

ER3 wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:59 pm
tribecalledquest wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:00 pm
ER3 wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:57 pm


I would agree...I just don't see the Cardinals taking the necessary actions to sign/trade for 3 starting OFs that would be better options than Edman (as sad as that is to type...) before next season.

Dexter Fowler is brutal defensively...and while he's a decent OBP guy, the rest of his offensive profile doesn't really make him an attractive starter at this point. If Edman gives you 75% of what he has offensively this year, he's a superior option to Fowler in RF.

Harrison Bader is a quality defender...but he profiles as a 4th OF (at best) with his offensive ineptitude factored in...

So, if the Cards do sign Ozuna to start in LF...where are the other 2 OF starters coming from? I guess that's the question...One camp will push forward the Tyler O'Neill, Lane Thomas, Randy Arozarena names...I don't see any of those guys being the solution...Dylan Carlson looks like he's gonna take one of these spots eventually...just not sure that next year he'll be ready from day 1...
The Cardinals went from having like 12 OF options 18 months ago to having like one now.
Yeah...that's the unfortunate truth...

STL had such a backlog of outfield depth...allegedly...So...they had to move Pham to clear a path to playing time for Bader...They had to move Oscar Mercado...because...well...I don't know...I guess they just didn't see any opportunity for Mercado on the horizon with that list of can't miss OF options ahead of him.

Now we're sitting here a year and a half later staring at a huge talent deficit in the OF. Weird how that works...
They got rid of Pham and Mercado to go all in on Bader. They thought they had their CFer locked up for 5-10 years. Whoops.
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Re: St. Louis Cardinals 2019

Post by OrangeandBlack74 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:26 pm

tribecalledquest wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:48 pm
OrangeandBlack74 wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:42 pm
I could see the Cardinals with a brand new starting outfield next season...that includes Edman, who was not a starter at the beginning of this season.
If Edman is starting in the OF that means they have failed on multiple levels.
I probably didn't state this clearly enough. I expect Edman to start at 3B, not in the outfield.
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Re: St. Louis Cardinals 2019

Post by tribecalledquest » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:54 pm

Ideally Edman would be a super utility guy who gets about 400 ABs a season. I’m not sure that will happen though.
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Re: St. Louis Cardinals 2019

Post by ER3 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:42 am

tribecalledquest wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:54 pm
Ideally Edman would be a super utility guy who gets about 400 ABs a season. I’m not sure that will happen though.
Yes...agreed. That would be the ideal scenario...because that likely means that the Cards would have signed Ozuna for LF, went out and got a legitimate upgrade in CF (Mookie Betts :lol: :lol: :lol: ), and either signed/acquired an upgrade in RF or at 3B or Fowler/Carpenter bounced back and proved to be an acceptable starting option for 100-120 games at those positions...

But if the Cards go into next season penciling in Harrison Bader, Matt Carpenter, and Dexter Fowler for 100+ starts each at their respective positions...then I think you are going to see Edman getting way more than 400 ABs as those three underwhelm again.

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals 2019

Post by SS01 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:39 pm

This is the corner management has painted itself into.

Carpenter-thru 2022 @$18.5M per
Contract Notes:
2022 option vests with 1,100 plate appearances across 2020-2021
If the option doesn't vest, it becomes a $12M club option with a $2M buyout
2022 Club option Plate Appearance Escalators (2021)
$500,000 for 350
$1M for 400, 450, 500, 550, 600, 650

Fowler-thru 2021 @$14.5 Mil + $2Mil signing bonus per
Contract Notes:
$250,000 for MVP ($150,000 for 2nd, $100,000 for 3rd-5th)
WS MVP: $150,000
LCS MVP: $100,000
All Star, Gold Glove, LDS MVP: $50,000
Silver Slugger: $25,000
Full No Trade Clause

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals 2019

Post by SS01 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:51 pm

50 Years Ago Today-Haray Caray Firing Schocks Cardinals' Fans
https://www.stltoday.com/sports/basebal ... 27baa.html

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals 2019

Post by ER3 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:39 pm

SS01 wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:39 pm
This is the corner management has painted itself into.

Carpenter-thru 2022 @$18.5M per
Contract Notes:
2022 option vests with 1,100 plate appearances across 2020-2021
If the option doesn't vest, it becomes a $12M club option with a $2M buyout
2022 Club option Plate Appearance Escalators (2021)
$500,000 for 350
$1M for 400, 450, 500, 550, 600, 650

Fowler-thru 2021 @$14.5 Mil + $2Mil signing bonus per
Contract Notes:
$250,000 for MVP ($150,000 for 2nd, $100,000 for 3rd-5th)
WS MVP: $150,000
LCS MVP: $100,000
All Star, Gold Glove, LDS MVP: $50,000
Silver Slugger: $25,000
Full No Trade Clause
It's problematic to have that much money tied up in two guys that may be best served as part time players in 2020 and 2021, but that money is already spent now...With the attendance numbers and the new TV money kicking in, the Cardinals absolutely have the payroll room to bring in other, more productive players while having Carp and Fowler serve as part time options over the next two years...

Hopefully Dylan Carlson is ready to give us quality production for the minimum in RF by 2021...that would help the payroll issue.

Looking at Carp's vesting option for 2022, the Cards just need to do everything in their power to make sure he doesn't get 1100 PAs in 2020 and 2021...that would take that extra year at $18.5M off the books in 2022...which would be another good payroll development...

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals 2019

Post by Mike Radigan » Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:18 pm

4-0 Cards and still batting in the first.

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals 2019

Post by Mike Radigan » Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:22 pm

7 zip still hitting.

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals 2019

Post by Mike Radigan » Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:23 pm

Nine.

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals 2019

Post by Mike Radigan » Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:27 pm

Ten on a K.

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals 2019

Post by Mike Radigan » Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:29 pm

Ten it is. Bronx cheer.

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals 2019

Post by Buckeyes1 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:03 pm

Driving home from work I check my phone and it’s 4-0 with the bases jacked. Wow

Get home and turn the TV on just in time to see Wong double to make it 9-0. Unbelievable

Saw it on Twitter, the Cardinals scores 3 more runs in the first inning than the Twins did in 3 games

I guess Carlos can be forgiven
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Re: St. Louis Cardinals 2019

Post by Redbird CC Fan » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:23 pm

Would love to see 8 more games like today over next month.
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Re: St. Louis Cardinals 2019

Post by Bluejaygrad03 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:47 pm

Nationals win in 10 innings 7-3 with Howie Kendrick hitting a grand slam in the top of the 10th.

So it'll be Nationals-Cardinals in the NLCS starting Friday in St. Louis. Game time for Game 1 set for 7:08 PM CT. Game 2 on Saturday will be at 3:08 PM. As was the case in the division series, the entire NLCS will air on TBS.

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals 2019

Post by deejay » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:22 am

Cardinals fan or not, MLB did not get the Yankees/Dodgers matchup they sorely wanted. And the Nationals did it with Bryce Harper watching In Philadelphia. Even better!!
go cubs go!

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals 2019

Post by tombs14 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:38 am

I guess I heard on the radio that Atlanta just blew that series:
2 years
8 months
-
3 days after the Falcons did in the superbowl.

:twisted: :shock:

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals 2019

Post by SS01 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:32 pm

Helsley comments prompt "tomahawk chop" changes
https://www.stltoday.com/sports/basebal ... bd033.html

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals 2019

Post by tribecalledquest » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:47 pm

SS01 wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:32 pm
Helsley comments prompt "tomahawk chop" changes
https://www.stltoday.com/sports/basebal ... bd033.html
Good for the Braves. It’s a start.
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