Fall Sports reduced to conference only, will start Sept 18

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squirrel
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Fall Sports reduced to conference only, will start Sept 18

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Re: Fall Sports reduced to conference only, will start Sept 18

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Basketball is the crown jewel for the conference so hopefully these other sports do not impact how and when basketball opens up. Can't see how cross country should be affected as long as they are tested on a regular basis.
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Re: Fall Sports reduced to conference only, will start Sept 18

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One of the best hidden stories in recent weeks is growing consensus in the global (and finally US medical community) that hydroxychloroquine (in combination with other things) is actually a very effective therapeutic, with at least one doctor from Yale with over 300 peer-reviewed papers, declaring that had there been movement in the US to prove how it could work, rather than mock the concept and rush poor studies to demonstrate that it won't. . .in spite of the fact it has been an effective and accepted therapeutic for a range of conditions for close to 50 years. . .many lives could have been saved, and the spread could have been nearly stopped cold by now.
Last edited by squirrel on Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fall Sports reduced to conference only, will start Sept 18

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squirrel wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:02 pm
One of the best hidden stories in recent weeks is growing consensus in the global (and finally US medical community) that hydroxychloroquine (in combination with other things) is actually a very effective therapeutic, with at least one doctor from Yale with over 300 peer-reviewed papers declaring that had there been movement in the US to prove how it could work, rather than mock the concept and rush poor studies to demonstrate that it won't. . .in spite of the fact it has been an effective and accepted therapeutic for a range of conditions for close to 50 years. . .many lives could have been saved, and the spread could have been nearly stopped cold by now.
Source?

All I can find agreeing with this assessment is an opinion piece and a Fox News segment, both done by the same guy. I'm not saying you're wrong, as I'm especially bad using "global" sources and knowing who is reliable and valid in their reporting. I think some of his points about statistical analysis are certainly valid. That's what happens when writers turn in to statisticians overnight by attempting to extract meaning from numbers (and why Vegas always wins :jokerc ).

Also, for clarification - the author of the opinion piece has 300 peer-reviewed papers in his career, but the way the sentence is worded it sounds like there are 300 peer-reviewed papers that support his conclusions about hydroxychloroquine.

As always, I'd guess the truth is somewhere in the middle. It's probably less dangerous and somewhat more effective than some have made it out to be, but it's also not an obvious widespread game-changer (unless used as just a part of new combinations/cocktails for the right patient demographics).

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Re: Fall Sports reduced to conference only, will start Sept 18

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Good point, it needs a comma (fixed). The doctor published it in Newsweek here
https://www.newsweek.com/key-defeating- ... on-1519535

I heard an interview with the doctor, and he'll be the first to say it's not perfect. But it is has repeatedly proven to be an effective therapeutic. It's not the answer to end this thing, but in terms of eliminating the panic of spread and getting back to close to normal like many other countries have, it is a short-term stop-gap.

Doctors are administering it in practice because of the existing evidence that its working, again as part of a course of treatment.
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Re: Fall Sports reduced to conference only, will start Sept 18

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I just don't see in-person college classes happening very long. You're not going to stop college kids, in general, from partying. They have a ton of social interaction in general. Maybe you can keep athletes, or specific teams, separated. But even then, they're coming in contact with all the others that don't care if they get it or spread it on campus all the time.

I suppose this belongs in another thread - but I am skeptical of anything Yale Medical related. I'll admit that bias.

I did just see this, too: https://www.yahoo.com/news/doctor-behin ... 12270.html

I have a hunch this guy was illegally extracting data from a specific EMR, and thus isn't willing to tell on himself to prove his study. But his pattern of weird behavior says he might've just been exaggerating or lying in an attempt to capitalize on the moment for more industry regard, who knows. That was the harm/sacrifice in reducing publishing standards in an attempt to get quicker conclusions.

I think there's a lot of trial and error going on, and everyone has to be careful of allowing anecdotal outliers outweigh the overwhelming majority of evidence to drive their analysis. Statistics matter, and you can't cherry-pick to make framed conclusions. You need to be consistent in your application. It's kinda like anti-vaxxers saying that the corona-virus doesn't kill enough people to make it an issue. Their own argument becomes fatal to their entire agenda.

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Re: Fall Sports reduced to conference only, will start Sept 18

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squirrel wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:02 pm
One of the best hidden stories in recent weeks is growing consensus in the global (and finally US medical community) that hydroxychloroquine (in combination with other things) is actually a very effective therapeutic, with at least one doctor from Yale with over 300 peer-reviewed papers, declaring that had there been movement in the US to prove how it could work, rather than mock the concept and rush poor studies to demonstrate that it won't. . .in spite of the fact it has been an effective and accepted therapeutic for a range of conditions for close to 50 years. . .many lives could have been saved, and the spread could have been nearly stopped cold by now.
If you are referring to that Breitbart video. I am not buying anything in that. Watched about 1/2 of it.

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Re: Fall Sports reduced to conference only, will start Sept 18

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The interview I heard was on the Washington Examiner podcast.
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Re: Fall Sports reduced to conference only, will start Sept 18

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squirrel wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:02 pm
One of the best hidden stories in recent weeks is growing consensus in the global (and finally US medical community) that hydroxychloroquine (in combination with other things) is actually a very effective therapeutic, with at least one doctor from Yale with over 300 peer-reviewed papers, declaring that had there been movement in the US to prove how it could work, rather than mock the concept and rush poor studies to demonstrate that it won't. . .in spite of the fact it has been an effective and accepted therapeutic for a range of conditions for close to 50 years. . .many lives could have been saved, and the spread could have been nearly stopped cold by now.
I think you are overstating this global consensus that hydroxychloroquine is a very effective therapeutic for COVID-19. Results of studies on the drug's effectiveness are mixed, at best.

New England Journal of Medicine just released results of a study on July 23 that found that hydroxychloroquine did not have any clinical benefit when treating COVID-19 patients in their study. "In this open-label, multicenter, randomized, controlled trial involving hospitalized patients with confirmed mild-to-moderate Covid-19, a 7-day course of hydroxychloroquine either with azithromycin or alone did not result in better clinical outcomes..."

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2019014

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Re: Fall Sports reduced to conference only, will start Sept 18

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This just shows everyone how messed up our media is now days. Everyone needs to just go back to using their critical thinking skills. I'm still listening to Dr. Fauci as my middle of the road guide when it comes to this pandemic and medicine.
As Desmond Tutu said: “If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor.”

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Re: Fall Sports reduced to conference only, will start Sept 18

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SFP wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:33 am
This just shows everyone how messed up our media is now days. Everyone needs to just go back to using their critical thinking skills. I'm still listening to Dr. Fauci as my middle of the road guide when it comes to this pandemic and medicine.
Yep...If you read/listen to stuff from far right media sources like Breitbart, OAN, Fox News, The Washington Examiner, The Federalist, etc., etc. you walk away convinced that hydroxyhloroquine is an absolute cure for COVID-19...with no downside and total effectiveness...

And similarly if you read/listen to stuff from far left media sources like Vox, MSNBC, Huffpost, The Daily Beast, etc., etc. you walk away convinced that hydroxychloroquine is completely ineffective for treating COVID-19 and nearly everyone who takes it will develop significant heart issues as a result.

The truth, as always, is probably somewhere in the middle...

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Re: Fall Sports reduced to conference only, will start Sept 18

Post by squirrel »

ER3 wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:51 am
SFP wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:33 am
This just shows everyone how messed up our media is now days. Everyone needs to just go back to using their critical thinking skills. I'm still listening to Dr. Fauci as my middle of the road guide when it comes to this pandemic and medicine.
Yep...If you read/listen to stuff from far right media sources like Breitbart, OAN, Fox News, The Washington Examiner, The Federalist, etc., etc. you walk away convinced that hydroxyhloroquine is an absolute cure for COVID-19...with no downside and total effectiveness...

And similarly if you read/listen to stuff from far left media sources like Vox, MSNBC, Huffpost, The Daily Beast, etc., etc. you walk away convinced that hydroxychloroquine is completely ineffective for treating COVID-19 and nearly everyone who takes it will develop significant heart issues as a result.

The truth, as always, is probably somewhere in the middle...
Hardly. Do you even know what hydroxychloroquine does? I can spell it out for you:

It shuts down the most significant barrier in finding a way to attack the virus. The way we typically treat similar viruses, COVID tends to thrive off of. Hydroxy has proven to take away that defense. That's why it continues to be studied. Current methods, which is why doctors are more frequently administering it with confidence and that knowledge (as part of a course with other treatments) are focusing on early application, not mid-and-late course treatments, as the existing studies do reflect favorable results in earlier adaptation (but those papers gloss over that, because it wasn't a control or focus of the study.

There will be a systematic review published in September (in Infection Prevention in Practice) that will include a series of to-be-published peer-review studies that will concentrate on that aspect of treatment.

And hydroxychloroquine does also come with severe risk, as it does have inflammatory complications. But to date, it is also one of the few things to actually demonstrate a clear ability to completely neutralize one aspect of the virus.

So, I will be the first to concede at this point, it is a Catch-22.

And yes, there is a middle ground of truth for sure. If it were absolutely not effective, there would not be close to 500 clinical trials currently ongoing.

Nowhere have I hinted that it is a cure. That is an absolute projection.
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Re: Fall Sports reduced to conference only, will start Sept 18

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Again go to the professionals who make a living at what they do to get an answer you can sleep on. If you need someone to make the last minute shot for you at a game who do you want to do that, a YMCA hack or a NBA shooting guard?

When it comes to medicine I'll ask my doctor and go with her recommendation 99% of the time. She's a Ivy League graduate that loves to read research and medical journals and to boot she's trained to make sense of all that data and information. I'm not risking my life or my family with 3rd rate doctors or someone without a degree in medicine.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2019014
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Re: Fall Sports reduced to conference only, will start Sept 18

Post by Lake Camelot »

I can agree with with ER3's in the middle. But you hardly ever hear any middle. It is gone. So, anyway I don't agree with Squirrel on this. I have sern very little agreement on it working. A few fringe doctors.

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Re: Fall Sports reduced to conference only, will start Sept 18

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SFP wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:27 pm
Again go to the professionals who make a living at what they do to get an answer you can sleep on. If you need someone to make the last minute shot for you at a game who do you want to do that, a YMCA hack or a NBA shooting guard?

When it comes to medicine I'll ask my doctor and go with her recommendation 99% of the time. She's a Ivy League graduate that loves to read research and medical journals and to boot she's trained to make sense of all that data and information. I'm not risking my life or my family with 3rd rate doctors or someone without a degree in medicine.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2019014
Nor should you. I never have, and never will. But there are many garbage doctors out there, too. I had a family doctor that was on the verge of prescribing me Acutane for acne when I was a teenager. While there was no consensus in the scientific community, and that it had not been proven, he had done enough of his own reading and research on the medicines he was prescribing, he thought there was enough concern to warn us about the risk of suicidal ideation, and gave us the choice as to whether or not I should take it. I refused. That is what a good doctor should do, but most do not. A couple years later, there was a class action lawsuit against the manufacturers of the medication for families of those that committed or had attempted suicide after taking the medication, but really, it was doctors blindly prescribing it, with little care for the risk or the well-being of their patients.
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Re: Fall Sports reduced to conference only, will start Sept 18

Post by RobertsonFieldHouse7 »

Umm, back to the sports schedule ...

Fall sports seasons are being pushed back, back, back into the usual winter and spring season schedules by many high school and some university leagues and governing associations.

Hard to believe that most, if not all, are watching to see how the pro sports are able to fare before all of them make the fall push.

Here in Calif, the high school season shift is not unlike what the IHSA rolled out, with a few twists -
- 2 seasons, "fall" and "spring" rather than the usual 3 (fall, winter, spring)
- "winter" season sports mostly pushed into the new spring season schedule, though some pushed into the new fall
- shortened seasons, with the implication -- but not explicit mandate -- that contests will be league only
- provision for playoff schedules that appear to be the usual period of time

It's really hard to imagine, with the current state of C-19 growth and vaccines and effective therapeutic treatments on the distant, undefined horizon, that D1 sports will take place at all - even without spectators - at all during the 20-21 school year.

*rant about current non-sports environment alert:*
Our inability as a nation to come together and trust one another across our differences is the primary culprit in the U.S. being the sole developed nation with rising trend lines for both new cases and deaths on a daily basis.

Even if we leveled off at 65,000 new daily cases, as appears to be the situation in the last few days, we're out of control and unable to stand together and sacrifice for each other -- for those with whom we disagree the most -- to save lives, save sports, save business.

Hope I'm wrong about it all.

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Re: Fall Sports reduced to conference only, will start Sept 18

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LJSites wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:30 pm
I just don't see in-person college classes happening very long. You're not going to stop college kids, in general, from partying. They have a ton of social interaction in general. Maybe you can keep athletes, or specific teams, separated. But even then, they're coming in contact with all the others that don't care if they get it or spread it on campus all the time.
Agreed LJ. We've seen BU make national news from their orientation kids getting COVID by going to an off-campus party, and we'll likely see a similar scenario play out in the opening few weeks of college classes around the country. I was telling a buddy (an anti-masker, anti-Fauci type lol) that I'd be surprised to see a college football season due to their closeness during practice and games. Of course, I got the expected response-- "the athletes aren't really at risk since they're young and in great shape...blah, blah, blah..." That's not the point though. The point is that these athletes will bring things into the classroom (for those that actually attend class) and pass their symptoms to older or compromised faculty and/or students.

I'll go on record as saying there will be no college football season since there's no way to create a bubble like the NBA. Look no further than MLB, which I expect to see cancel their season within the next two weeks.
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Re: Fall Sports reduced to conference only, will start Sept 18

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I could see the college basketball season starting sometime in December provided they come up with a vaccine.

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Re: Fall Sports reduced to conference only, will start Sept 18

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real fan wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:31 pm
I could see the college basketball season starting sometime in December provided they come up with a vaccine.
Basketball may be easier to start after the kids head back home for Thanksgiving. I still wish they would have a condensed season and start in January where it appears that a vaccine has a great chance of being put out to the general public. I believe though that the first vaccines need to go to the first responders and then essential workers.
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